It’s just data

A Bias for Action

Steven Noels and Andy Oliver have been providing interesting commentary on the evolution of an published list of Apache committers with links to personal home pages / web logs.  What most seem to miss is that this is a classic bikeshed discussion, complete with predictions of dire consequences from individuals if their particular point of view is not adopted.

The way that these disputes tend to get resolved in Apache is that somebody steps up to the plate and builds the darn thing as best as they can and solicits input in the form of "patches" (tangible suggestions in the form of working code).  The original code provided is generally not important - it tends to get refactored away anyway into oblivion.  What is important is that it focuses discussion into the form of constructive and tangible input.

In this case, I have done exactly that.  List and source.  Patches welcome.


What is amusing to see is that all the heat has shifted away from general@jakarta.a.o to community@a.o - apparently the heat _must_ somehow be present in, and dissipate through the system. I still believe there's quite some chest-thumping involved. I had fun today doing useful stuff.

Posted by Steven Noels at

Not to air our dirty laundry...but.. No Sam.. I get it, thats why I said I thought community was the wrong place for the proposal. Also the entry I made was intended to settle the "oh lets hope they remain hidden" idea by just syndicating them to you and 1000 of my closest friends (riding the unexpected popularity of my .NET posts due to the javablogs effect)...This was a patch...andy-style ;-). I was one of the people whining for a "infrastructure" project with actual voting committers. Then "doers" can work on infrastructure with less interference from the peanut gallery (the greek effect on infrastructure). However, I think you're missing the fact that this antipathy is part of the underlying thread I was talking about. There is a sect that doesn't want the private little cliche opened up. Many of them have an irrational hatred for Jakarta and think anyone even associated with it is a baffoon (present virtual company included). Everything keeps coming back to that. Consider it the termites on the bikeshed that live in the mulch spread throughout the community.

BTW. Paint the bikeshed bright yellow so that it is easily seen and the word BIKESHED in big black block letters so that its function is well understood.

Posted by Andy at

Andy, the point is no way that anybody on community@apache.org or infrastructure@apache.org can interfere with what this "doer" does unless I chose to let them.

I've received and incorporated several changes already, gotten one individual to update members.xml (somthing you might consider doing, BTW), and others to consider setting up or enhancing their community pages. I've even gotten a number of kudos, including from some that you believe have an irrational hatred.

It is funny how working code cuts across political boundaries.

Posted by Sam Ruby at

Okay, I'll buy that. We'll see.

I haven't because I'm not able to edit members.xml. I can get "foundation" (which I edited) but not "site".

[andy@localhost andy]$ cvs co site
Password:
cvs server: Updating site
cvs server: failed to create lock directory for `/home/cvs/site' (/home/cvs/site/#cvs.lock): Permission denied
cvs server: failed to obtain dir lock in repository `/home/cvs/site'
cvs [server aborted]: read lock failed - giving up

I'm still working on moving the site over. Forrest and I just recently got over our differences. I'd say build, it would say core, I'd say pretty please build with special environment variable and sugar on top, it would say xml jar hell exception, I'd say build blasted now darnit, it would say nothing -- of course the easiest way to get something working after many hours of trying is to whine about how it doesn't...of course I typed this and then went build...and "BUILD SUCCESSFUL Total time: 32 seconds"...How rude for it to get in the middle of a good forrest whine ;-).

Workin on that part. I'll whine about CVS not working some more and see if that helps ;-).

Posted by andy at

Andy: re permission denied - I sent an inquiry to infrastructure@apache.org just over an hour ago.

Posted by Sam Ruby at

Cool. Didn't know exactly whom to ask about that.

Posted by Andy at

The bikeshed's sole purpose is heat dissipation.

Posted by Steven Noels at

Kind of an off topic point, but what I find cool is the growth of Sam's original Python code to this latest version. Very cool additions, and gives me a few ideas as well :)

Posted by Jim Jagielski at

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