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Tamarin

Frank Hecker: Adobe has now taken the code for that AVM2 virtual machine implementation and released it as open source through the Mozilla project as Tamarin.

If we take as a given that this runtime will be ubiquitous, debugged, and performant; and couple this with the recent trends to retarget popular languages to run on a common VM, then why not port some of these same languages to a runtime which actually was designed for a dynamic language?


Yes, a Ruby or Python environment that generated AVM2 bytecodes would be awesome as part of Firefox etc. No more need for things like RJS - just write your entire web app in Rails, using HTML and/or Flash for presentation.

Posted by Andrew Shebanow at

That would be pretty sweet if the VM was really made in a way that reasonably supported other languages.  People keep talking about compiling code to Javascript, and that Javascript will be the new VM.  This seems crazy to me.  But if that’s just the technique for legacy platforms like IE, and Firefox et al support a proper VM, maybe that’s not so bad.

Posted by Ian Bicking at

The NekoVM is a virtual machine designed to support many different dynamic languages.  To target the runtime with a language, you don’t need to generate bytecode but instead a very simple Neko Language, making debugging the output far easier.  There isn’t any reason you couldn’t do the same thing with some optimized subset of JavaScript.

Posted by Justin at

Sam Ruby: Tamarin

[link]...

Excerpt from del.icio.us/pmuellr/avm2 at

to a runtime which actually was designed for a dynamic language?

Do you have one in particular in mind?

Posted by J$ at

Sam Ruby: Tamarin

Jeremy Zawodny : Sam Ruby: Tamarin - Sam Ruby: Tamarin: “why not port some of these same languages to a runtime which actually was designed for a dynamic language?” an excellent question... Tags : links...

Excerpt from HotLinks - Level 1 at

I guess parrot vm would fit the bill

In other news , perl6 could target the tamarin vm

[link]

ps: don’t know why they didn’t choosed the java vm (quite stable IMHO)
and invented yet another wheel
[link]

Posted by mariuz at

I wonder how long before we have a standard common runtime to run all these VMs on ..

Posted by Paul Downey at

What about Mono? It supports Python (IronPython), JScript (ECMA 262), Boo (a Python-like language for the CLI), Perl, Nemerle and more both statically and script-like languages. IronPython is probably the best “proof” of CLI’s (ECMA 335) “scriptiness”. Mono is open source and the CLI is an open standard. What more do we need?

Posted by Asbjørn Ulsberg at

asbjorn - what else do you need? to be comfortable MS won’t sue...

Posted by James Governor at

See Brendan’s comments regarding Tamarin/languages here:

[link]

Posted by Dan Sickles at

It’s not too surprising that this is targetting just Javascript, I guess.  The runtime of Javascript looks a lot more like PHP than any of Python, Ruby, or the typical runtime on the JVM or CLR.  A typical JVM environment just isn’t as light or disposable as a typical Javascript environment (which is, after all, nearly any — and often most! — transient little web page out there).  Focusing on fancy Ajax stuff and ignoring the bulk of trivial pages and scripts would be a mistake.  The use cases then lead to a very different kind of runtime.  Of course, one wonders if Adobe is as focused on the low end of scripting in Tamarin, which isn’t necessarily the primary use case for Flash... but presumbly they will be, or will have to be.  And Flash has become increasingly lighter and more integrated into the web experience (ads in particular), so small and transient scripts seem to be one of their targets.

Posted by Ian Bicking at

Asbjørn: Perl only has bindings to the CLR, it doesn’t actually run on it. Perl 5 has no formal spec, so it cannot be reimplemented on another VM. There was a major attempt many years ago, before Perl 6, codenamed Topaz, but it crashed and burned. (Perl 6, btw, does have a formal spec (under development), including a test suite (already thousands of tests strong), so is already is being reimplemented about a half dozen-fold.)

Posted by Aristotle Pagaltzis at

VisualWorks or even better: Strongtalk. Besides being really fast they even have a real garbage collector, not some sorry-ass conservative crap.

Neither the JVM nor CLR/Mono are made to run dynamic languages at high performance. They have static types everywhere through the bytecodes (although that hopefully changes with Java 1.7). As an example IronPython is twice as fast as CPython at best. That’s just laughable if you compare it to high-performance Smalltalk implementations.

Posted by anonymous at

As I understand it (from articles like this), a lot of the performance of AVM2 comes from taking advantage of the (optional) type declarations that have been added to the language. If so, it might not actually be that helpful for other dynamic languages. Then again, I haven’t read the code, so there may be other performance benefits to it. And, at the very least, it won’t actively work against dynamic languages.

Posted by Moss Collum at

Extra Chunky

[mariuz] ps: don’t know why they didn’t choosed the java vm (quite stable IMHO) and invented yet another wheel There is no perfect Pepsi, there are only perfect Pepsis....

Excerpt from BitWorking | Joe Gregorio at

Roadmap Updates: New Projects

My Ajax Experience West keynote covers a lot of ground, with slant-wise truth telling the over-arching theme. Mozilla believes in fairly radical open source action, including open strategy. In that spirit, three new projects, the first already known...

Excerpt from mozillaZine feedHouse at

Mozilla Monkeying Around with Tamarin

But in a really good way. Brendan Eich has announced 3 cool new projects around the Tamarin engine Adobe contributed to the Mozilla project: ActionMonkey, which will merge SpiderMonkey and Tamarin. Not really a new project, but lots more details are...

Excerpt from Shebanation at

Will it be possible to publish abc-code directly in <script>-tags on the net? This will be a great way for allowing other language developers to approach the web...

Posted by Martin Elsman at

Adobe extending Flash platform: Run C, C++, Java and more

Paul Krill picked up on Kevin Lynch saying “It’s basically a way to take other languages and make them run on top of Flash Player” as he answered a question from the audience at Engage the other night. Expanding on the project,...

Excerpt from Ajaxian at

[from klipe] Intertwingly – Tamarin

Sam Ruby on new ECMAScript stuff....

Excerpt from Delicious/url/33e814df7ea7e881182cc83aa7bacf6f at

New Projects

My Ajax Experience West keynote covers a lot of ground, with slant-wise truth telling the over-arching theme. Mozilla believes in fairly radical open source action, including open strategy. In that spirit, three new projects, the first already known...

Excerpt from Brendan Eich at

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