It’s just data

Atom at W3C?

Scott Hollenbeck: The ATOMPUB WG was not approved during today's IESG telechat, primarily because of comments sent to the IESG from Eric Miller of the W3C.

Overall, I agree with Tim Bray's take, with the following additional observations:

Eric imagines that something like GRDDL would be discussed.  I don't have a problem with that presuming that there are volunteers.  My experience with commercial software is that when asked, users have lots of requirements.  However, when asked which of these they would be willing to pay for, the list shrinks considerably.  I have a similar experience with open source where contributions can be made directly to the code.

This leads me to wonder how the draft IETF Charter would need to change in order to become a W3C Charter.  It would seem to me that someone from the W3C would be in the best position to answer this.  Any takers?

Rereading the material Mark Nottingham posted this morning, and [link] , I guess that both a Working Group and an Interest Group are needed. The Working Group will be the core Atom community members with official full-time involvement - Good Standing Requirements - in the group, the Interest Group - an open mailing list / fora - for folks like me on the fringes contributing where we can, raising issues, offering different perspectives.

I guess from the Interest Group its possible to adopt the same rough consensus approach.

Posted by Isofarro at

The two things needed for GRDDL would be an RDF model of Atom (i.e. a schema/ontology), and an XSLT stylesheet.  The latter is straightforward, given the former. The former is nearly complete against the spec: [link]

Your characterization of contributors only covers part of the picture - if people can see some kind of personal gain, they tend to be rather better motivated. I want Atom data pumping from blogs, nntp etc directly into a personal knowledgebase, to make my digital life more efficient. Knowledgebase software is available of-the-shelf, what is lacking is clear interop. I decided I could spare a few hours for that, weighed against the endless hours I waste looking for stuff fairly blindly.

In the past few weeks a chap called Henry Story was looking into a model to use in the core of the blogging app he's working on (James Gosling's 'bloged') and Atom/OWL fit the bill. So he's spent time quite a bit of time filling out and tidying up the ontology. He gets a well-thought out model for a little "volunteer" effort, thanks the RDF and well-formed Pie/Echo/Atom developers who have done the groundwork. Interop with syndicated feeds comes more or less free.

btw, given that the schema is in effect a machine-readable formalization of the prose spec, it also offers other benefits - semantic validation sound interesting? Checking the spec for logical consistency? 'Course that'll need volunteers...

Posted by Danny at

W3C invitation for Atom Working Group Proposal

Via Danny Ayers' Raw Blog Atom Invited to the W3C, the W3C have replied to the Atom IETF proposal by inviting Atom to propose a W3C Working Group. This is mainly because Atom is a web-focused specification, so it fits in well with the W3C's...

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NNTP Support in RSS Bandit and Google Groups 2

One of the problems I have at work is that I have 3 applications open for participating in online community. I have Outlook for email, RSS Bandit for blogs & news sites and Outlook Express for USENET newsgroups. My plan was to collapse...

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Mmmm... Politics

Got a first-hand taste of W3C politics at breakfast today. Turned out to be quite a few W3C people there....... [more]

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Journal : Atom et W3C QA

La communauté des formats de syndication et Atom est en ébullition. Le format de syndication Atom après s'être développé pendant 11 mois grâce à l'initiative de Sam Ruby cherche un endroit où il pourrait être normalisé et stabilisé. Ils ont étudié...

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Bill Gates, Blogs and RSS

My brother just sent me a link to a Reuter's article entitled Microsoft's Gates Touts Blogging as Business Tool. The article quotes Bill Gates where he talks about blogs, how they are distributed and how they can be used as business communication...

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I'm interested in how groups form. It's frustrating, most of the literature about groups is fixated on how they rot or how the gears in mature ones mesh. For example you can read floors of books on revolution. There is very little on what happens after the revolution. There is also a lot of thinly veiled liturature targeted at the frustration of people attempting to change some existing group. One thing groups do as they mature is they being to lay in various rules, procedures, practices, rituals, etc. to compensate for and temper assorted problems that have emerged as the group matured. Clay Shirky and Dave Weinberg both gave very nice talks about how groups emerge and and undergo constitutional crisis. A friend asked the other day if I when I said by constitutional crisis I meant of the body or of the law. A bit of both I guess. The first constitutional crisis of a group is clearly of the body, a fever. If they go thru the fever, as versus backing off from it, then governance begins to emerge. From then on the body's fevers and the rule rework engage in a kind of systolic ebb and flow. To take a simple example consider the community around a Wiki. They initially allow any and all to drop in and add/maintain content. Inevitably something unfortunate happens. They then might institute some coordination device that helps to assure all changes get proofread by at least somebody within a week of going into the shared document. This is the moment in the life of a group when the individuals in the group agree to relinquish some authority to the collective group. That's possible only because the individuals have come to value the goods group is managing to create. (Well possibly some overarching authority might command that relinquishing, but let's ignore that.) This adds a little refinement to the life cycle of the common cause around which a group rondevous. Kieran Healy has a nice posting about professionalism. It includes this quote: "Professionalism is about relinquishing something." That's not limited to...... [more]

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Will the Online Identity War turn out like the XML Syndication War?

I’ve been spending some time thinking about the ramifications of centralized identity plays coming back into vogue with the release of Facebook Connect , MySpaceID and Google’s weird amalgam Google Friend Connect . Slowly I began to draw parallels...

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